AH Biology Project

[black_lucas]

Hey folks!

Has anyone got any suggestions or practice advice for what I could do for my advanced higher biology project. I obviously would like it to be in some way medically orientated. Any suggestions, hints etc. (or donated old projects...???? hehe!!!(only joking BTW)) would be very much appreciated.

thanks,

black_lucas

aka Scott BTW

[relliott]

Don't get too fancy and do something your teacher understands. They don't know as much as they'll have you believe!:p That and they'll be the one who has to guide you through and estimate your grades.

An interesting lab we did at university was on Glucose Tolerance Tests for which you needed a lancet, a finger (or two), an overnight starve, a glucose solution and a glucometer. It could feasibly be done outwith a hospital (so long as you are not diabetic) and the results should give you a nice curvy graph showing the rate of absorption of glucose into your blood. Play about with the variables and produce lots of graphs (if you don't mind getting more sore fingers and possibly a volunteer or two) to see how you can change the rate of absorption.

This could get complicated, so run it by a teacher first

[elliottsimpson]

If anyone does want to go ahead with this but has trouble getting the glucose meter, let me know and I'll see if I have any friends left in the Rapid Diagnostics Divisions of some of the Pharmaceutical companies.

[Real D]

Since work has started offering a glucose meter cleaning and calibration service I can get my hands on just about any brand cheaply if not free.

A really good new one is out by roche - it has an easy blood collection strip and a memory of over 50 tests (I think) it also has the ability to be linked to a PC so if you can draw, like me!, then you can put the info into a stats programme to get lots of pretty graphs etc.

Oh and to get a fasting GTT you just need to skipp food for 6-8 hours i.e. breakfast early, no lunch test in the afternoon for a fasting, then drink a sugar solution, or lucozade - much tastier - and take the reading again after a few mins! I can even give you my results as a sample of how to set them out if you really want!!!!

Lesl

[relliott]

watch the validity of your results if you use lucozade. The values quoted on the back of the bottle are not guaranteed, and while it is tastier, your project may be viewed as ill-planned with suspicious and false results

[DScollon]

Elliott, do you use Lucozade for your glucose tolerance tests? Don't you have exact figures on how much glucose it contains?

[elliottsimpson]

Yes - we do use lucozade.

The problem with it is that so you have to be aware that different pack sizes provide different energy values. To provide the recommended 75g anhydrous glucose dose, you require the following volumes or weights of Lucozade:-

68 kcal/100mL 449 mL 480 g
73 kcal/100mL 419 mL 448 g
78 kcal/100mL 392 mL 419 g

Lucozade Light, Low Calorie Lucozade Sport and Lucozade Sport Isotonic Drinks do not have enough glucose in them to be used for the GTT.

We put this info into an article for Clinician - the Monklands news letter to the 365 GPs served by the labs here (10% of Scotland's GPs - is that impressive or is that impressive!) under the title "Lara Croft's Revenge"

The problem with glucose is that 75g is unbearably sweet and tends to have a high osmolality (i.e. it is thick). Some people find the sweetness a bit nausiating and many find the high osmolality delays gastric emptying. The out-come (literally on occasions) of this is that the patient / volunteer vomits half the glucose load. You cannot proceed with the test because you don't know how much glucose has been lost and you're no longer dealing with someone in a fasting state. So, you have to abandon the test and repeat it on another day.

Lucozade is much easier to take - especially if it's been chilled first. It contains short glucose sub-unit chain polysaccharides which are fairly rapidly digested and the absorption seems to be OK. As far as I know - you could compare it with glucose as part of your project.

RealD has brought me a Roche Accu-Chek Advantage II glucose meter and some test strips and lancets, etc. So the equipment is available for a project on a first come first loan basis. I guess you could share it round a few people, if you're organised.

We might want you to publish your findings in NextGen, of course.

Elliott

[black_lucas]

initially let me thank you for all of the help offered.

the only problem that i'm having is getting permission to do the investigation. At the moment, it looks like I'll have to do the test at home and not taking a test every hour at school. My teacher needs to check whether I can do the investigation at home.

The idea is good and seams relitively easy to do.

I thnk the comparison idea is good and is what I'll need to do to make it an 'investigation'. e.g. a comparision between the glucose in x and y. I would also prefer to use the branded names than a glusose solution.

i'll get back 2 u asap. I've got lesson's now.

cya,

Scott

[elliottsimpson]

The more I look at Black Lucas knocking back the booze, the more I'm convinced it's Buckfast. Don't know if you'd get leave to test that one out to see if it really is a tonic!

Elliott

[black_lucas]

Thanks for the suggestion.

This would be a worthwhile experiment and educationally invaluable. My Biology teacher would wholeheartidly approve.

Thanks,


Scott

aka black_lucas

[black_lucas]

OK, i think i've got this sorted out, I just need to check the method be4 I present it to my teacher:
I'll stop eating the day before at 2000hrs.
On the day, I'll have a drink of my solution (lucozade at elliotts recommeded doses).
I'll then take readings at 0.5hrs and every hour subsequent for 6hrs also with a reading at 3.5hrs. (the intermediates are due to a large increase/decrease at those times.
I'll then draw a nice curve.
Now to make it an 'investigation' i need to investigate something. I thought of comparing the lucozade with another 'energy drink' e.g. red bull. if any1 has any other suggestions i'd be happy to ear them.

Many thanks,

Scott

[elliottsimpson]

Remember to take a fasting level. If it is greater than 10mmol/L, don't proceed with the test but have a chat with your local GP. Then take the dose (measured in mls or grams from the info above for the different concentrations in the various bottle sizes) and take bloods every half hour - if fact, young folk tend to absorb and store glucse quite quickly, so you could try 15 minute intervals for the first hour to see when you get a peak value.

Continue until you get back to baseline - you'll frequently find a hypoglycaemic dip: i.e. the levels fall below baseline and then rise to normal. You can compare different drinks or you could try varying your diet and check it again once a week.

A week on a high carbohyde diet will give you an almost flat curve which looks like malabsorption. A week on a low carbohydrate diet will give you one that starts to look like impaired glucose tolerance or maybe even a borderline diabetic curve.

So, any doctors visiting us, please take note, if your patient has been off food for a week for any reason, they can show sugar in their urine when they re-start eating and, if tested by glucose tolerance test too soon, can get the wrong diagnosis - this happened to my father 30 odd years ago.

[black_lucas]

Many thanks,

I'll to and present it to my teacher.

cya

Scott

[elliottsimpson]

This thread has been lying dormant for a wee while - so time to re-visit it.

So far we have one NextGener equipped with glucose meter, stix for testing, etc. I have promises of other meters if anyone else is interested in this study. The more people who try it, the better the final comparison of results will be and I think we could get it published in one of the chatty journals, if not even in a "real" journal.

So, think about it folks. Your name in print before you even start uni!

Elliott

:)

[black_lucas]

Unfortunately I am unable to do this test as it what I planned to do would disprove the SQA's syllabus for higher which states that even though we change our diet the negative feedback by action of the glucagon storage, glycogen etc. means that it is kept at a constant level. even if this is not true it is what the SQA want you to learn. As my bio teacher says 'you are nnot hear to learn the truth, just something that'll get you an A'

cya

Scott

[elliottsimpson]

Glycogen stores etc are used to maintain a steady fasting glucose level - that's OK and fits the SQA's syllabus. However, to achieve this in the face of changing nutitional states, changes to diet, etc. you adjust the pattern of enzymes throughout your system.

So, when you challenge your system with an oral glucose load, if you've been on a high carbohydrate diet, your enzymes will be at such a level as to handle the load efficiently and the blood level wont rise so much as it would had you been on a low carbohydrate diet - the carbohydrate handling enzymes are present in lower concentrations in the latter situation.

Anyway, I have a spare meter which can be used to detect blood ketones which rise if you go on a protein only diet - which would give an added string to this project.

Any takers?

Elliott

:) :)

[kenclark1uk]

Elliott, for my dissertation i am putting my subjects through an insulin clamp to get their blood glucose concentrations at the levels i want before they perform physical tests (by the way i am working with Dr. Miles Fisher if you know him). The thing is i am having trouble finding a glucose meter which is accurate enough and will hold up any reliability questions that may be asked of it.

Subjects lie supine for an hour prior to testing with blood samples being drawn every 5 minutes, the result of these blood samples determining the rate of infusion of insulin/glucose. Therefore, i need a fast and accurate method of measuring blood glucose. The glucose assay method at my uni takes 30-40minutes, so this is not good enough.

Just been reading about glucose meters in this thread so i thought u may be able to help.

Thanks

Kenny:)

[elliottsimpson]

The meters are not a precise as the laboratory method (he would say that, wouldn't he) but the difference between the meter and the lab method would be much smaller than the differences that could occur in your volunteer during the 30 to 40 minutes it takes you to get a result. Contact lesley.hill@abbott.com and see what she thinks.

Elliott

[elliottsimpson]

It must be that time of year again - there are 2 guests reading this thread. We had 3 people in 3 different schools looking at glucose levels and I hope to get the meters back soon (come on you three - you know who you are!) so maybe someone else would like to have a try with onethis year.

It's actually quite important - if a patient is told they have glucose in their urine and are being referred for a glucose tolerance test. They look up the internet and find all about diabetes and low carbohydrate diets, etc., start following the diet and so change the way they handle glucose before they have the test which is meant to be establishing a base line.

Nic's results showed that 3 days of a low carbohydrate diet is enough to change the shape of the GTT curve (no comments about Nic's curves).

[Adam]

mwahahaha nics curves..
your terrible muriel!

[nicolacurrie]

:down: Baaaaaad !! This is what I come back to. Huh, honestly!!

[elliottsimpson]

Hi Nic - good to have you back - hope you had a great time - thanks for the post card.